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Quote: from carracer at 2:44 am on July 19, 2008

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Quote: from Spasty at 11:38 pm on July 18, 2008

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I have trouble with this. Israel (not the army, the country in general) is pretty cruel to Palestine. Either way, we sort of plopped Israel back where they were forever ago, as if you can actually do that. It's clearly Palestine's land.

  The Palestinians are treated so poorly. The amount of Palestinian deaths versus the amount of Israeli deaths is outrageous. Palestine suffers so many more deaths, but only Israel's are shown to us (usually multiple times). The few times that Palestinian deaths are reported, they're just like, "Oh, some Palestinian died. The end."

 
  Yeah, not a very eloquent post. Whatever. I can't be assed to find sources or figures or statistics.

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 well  
 maybe if the "soldiers" didn't hide in homes and crowded markets, there wouldn't be so many civilian casualties no?

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Explain the two roads (Israeli and Palestinian), where the Palestinian roads are rubbish?
Or the license plates denoting which race is which?
Or the checkpoints preventing easy Palestinian passage?
Or all the various human rights violations?

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"Terrorists kidnap soldiers and launch rockets so in order for Israel to protect its citizens it must put more restrictions on the Palestinians, only to encourage more terrorist support against "the israeli oppressor"."

read my topic please before asking questions i already answered

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The world is only as sweet as you make it and only as terrible as you see it

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carracer, you know my position. I just dare fouad to get involved in this post. The retard.

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he stopped responding to me
lmao

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The world is only as sweet as you make it and only as terrible as you see it

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Quote: from Spasty at 11:52 pm on July 18, 2008

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Quote: from carracer at 2:44 am on July 19, 2008

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Quote: from Spasty at 11:38 pm on July 18, 2008

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I have trouble with this. Israel (not the army, the country in general) is pretty cruel to Palestine. Either way, we sort of plopped Israel back where they were forever ago, as if you can actually do that. It's clearly Palestine's land.    

   The Palestinians are treated so poorly. The amount of Palestinian deaths versus the amount of Israeli deaths is outrageous. Palestine suffers so many more deaths, but only Israel's are shown to us (usually multiple times). The few times that Palestinian deaths are reported, they're just like, "Oh, some Palestinian died. The end."    

       
   Yeah, not a very eloquent post. Whatever. I can't be assed to find sources or figures or statistics.

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  well  
  maybe if the "soldiers" didn't hide in homes and crowded markets, there wouldn't be so many civilian casualties no?

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 Explain the two roads (Israeli and Palestinian), where the Palestinian roads are rubbish?  
 Or the license plates denoting which race is which?  
 Or the checkpoints preventing easy Palestinian passage?  
 Or all the various human rights violations?

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"Terrorists kidnap soldiers and launch rockets so in order for Israel to protect its citizens it must put more restrictions on the Palestinians, only to encourage more terrorist support against "the israeli oppressor"."

read my topic please before asking questions i already answered

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Yeah, don't care enough to read the topic. Sorry, mate.
And that still doesn't give excuse for human rights violations.

How about this?
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/10/20/isrlpa17139.htm

I really want to be on Israel's side. But I just can't. You can't treat other humans that way.
That being said, I don't really support Palestine, either.  I know there are terrible things that have come from both sides.

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SIGN UP HERE!!
SIGN UP HERE!!
SIGN UP HERE!!
SIGN UP HERE!!

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Quote: from carracer at 2:58 am on July 19, 2008

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Quote: from Spasty at 11:52 pm on July 18, 2008

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Quote: from carracer at 2:44 am on July 19, 2008

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Quote: from Spasty at 11:38 pm on July 18, 2008

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I have trouble with this. Israel (not the army, the country in general) is pretty cruel to Palestine. Either way, we sort of plopped Israel back where they were forever ago, as if you can actually do that. It's clearly Palestine's land.

  The Palestinians are treated so poorly. The amount of Palestinian deaths versus the amount of Israeli deaths is outrageous. Palestine suffers so many more deaths, but only Israel's are shown to us (usually multiple times). The few times that Palestinian deaths are reported, they're just like, "Oh, some Palestinian died. The end."

 
  Yeah, not a very eloquent post. Whatever. I can't be assed to find sources or figures or statistics.

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  well  
  maybe if the "soldiers" didn't hide in homes and crowded markets, there wouldn't be so many civilian casualties no?

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  Explain the two roads (Israeli and Palestinian), where the Palestinian roads are rubbish?
  Or the license plates denoting which race is which?
  Or the checkpoints preventing easy Palestinian passage?
  Or all the various human rights violations?

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 "Terrorists kidnap soldiers and launch rockets so in order for Israel to protect its citizens it must put more restrictions on the Palestinians, only to encourage more terrorist support against "the israeli oppressor"."  

 read my topic please before asking questions i already answered

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Yeah, don't care enough to read the topic. Sorry, mate.
And that still doesn't give excuse for human rights violations.

How about this?
http://hrw.org/english/docs/2007/10/20/isrlpa17139.htm

 
I really want to be on Israel's side. But I just can't. You can't treat other humans that way.
That being said, I don't really support Palestine, either. I know there are terrible things that have come from both sides.

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Fair enough.
Let me say though that israel HAS OFFERED medical help which they refuse again and again.

you know it goes both ways.
you can't blow up cafes and launch rockets at someone and expect them to be nice.

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The world is only as sweet as you make it and only as terrible as you see it

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Quote: from SgtPatches at 11:52 pm on July 18, 2008

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Quote: from carracer at 1:43 am on July 19, 2008

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Quote: from SgtPatches at 11:38 pm on July 18, 2008

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Palestinians. I don't think some old religious text should dictate today's politics. The Arabs were settled in Palestine, and it was a huge mistake to relocate people there just because it was an "ancestral land." As much as I believe we should tolerate religion, taking land away from a people took it too far.    

   If the world is going to award land just because of ancestors, I believe then that every resident of America who is not Native American should flee the country.

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  Well you are aware that it was a two state solution originally right?  

  And no one "relocated them"  

  The surrounding arab countries told the Palestinians to leave their homes so that they could destroy israel "and push the jews into the sea". The Palestinians were told that when israel was destroyed they could go back to their homes.  
  Not israels fault.  

  and also the reason jewish survivors chose that plot of land, is because its is the only jewish holy spot on earth.  

 

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 You're an idiot. Palestine was a British mandate that Britain cut a chunk out to move a bunch of whiny Jews. Then overnight, that chunk grew exponentially larger. The Palestinians weren't idiots, they were just caught in a shitty political bargain that gave them the short end of the stick.

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its not like there were any jews in a shitty political bargain when half the jewish population was killed during WW2, and then many jews went to israel only to be ravaged by more war and risk of destruction

it sucks for everyone

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that doesn't give Jews right to take land that belongs to another people and call it your own.

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To be a man you must have honor.
Honor and a penis.

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One thing I'm confused about. Why didn't the Jews just settle there? >.> I'm sure they wouldn't have minded if People of the Book settled down there with them, if they were non-threatening, of course.

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they tried that
there were jews there before WW2
and there were problems then

it pretty much started with King Saladin back in history
when he, the arab leader, ruled judea and his people decided to close off the gate of Jerusalem that the jewish messiah is supposed to pass though.
then they also built a temple on top of the one only holy jewish site on the planet.

they were never really tolerant unfortunately

also keep in mind israel has repeatedly given back land to the Palestinians in hope of a peaceful solution.
but every time, they have started to fight again due to closer access to the center of the country, so it has been revoked.

after a while israel kept offering looking for a peaceful solution and the palestinian leaders DECLINED the offer because they wanted jerusalem.

there are so many other islamic holy spots besides Jerusalem.

for jews it is THAT ONE.
And it has already been desecrated.

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The world is only as sweet as you make it and only as terrible as you see it

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Quote: from carracer at 1:56 am on July 19, 2008

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Quote: from SgtPatches at 11:52 pm on July 18, 2008

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Quote: from carracer at 1:43 am on July 19, 2008

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Quote: from SgtPatches at 11:38 pm on July 18, 2008

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Palestinians. I don't think some old religious text should dictate today's politics. The Arabs were settled in Palestine, and it was a huge mistake to relocate people there just because it was an "ancestral land." As much as I believe we should tolerate religion, taking land away from a people took it too far.

  If the world is going to award land just because of ancestors, I believe then that every resident of America who is not Native American should flee the country.

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  Well you are aware that it was a two state solution originally right?  

  And no one "relocated them"  

  The surrounding arab countries told the Palestinians to leave their homes so that they could destroy israel "and push the jews into the sea". The Palestinians were told that when israel was destroyed they could go back to their homes.  
  Not israels fault.  

  and also the reason jewish survivors chose that plot of land, is because its is the only jewish holy spot on earth.  

 

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  You're an idiot. Palestine was a British mandate that Britain cut a chunk out to move a bunch of whiny Jews. Then overnight, that chunk grew exponentially larger. The Palestinians weren't idiots, they were just caught in a shitty political bargain that gave them the short end of the stick.

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 its not like there were any jews in a shitty political bargain when half the jewish population was killed during WW2, and then many jews went to israel only to be ravaged by more war and risk of destruction  

 it sucks for everyone

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that doesn't give Jews right to take land that belongs to another people and call it your own.

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the Jews that initially came from Europe to Palestine before the creation of the Jewish state did not take any land from the inhabitants, they bought it legally. Just before the creation of the state, when tension was heightened and the arab leaders told the palestinians to leave their homes and return after all the Jews were killed, it is true that a minority of palestinian villages were expelled as they were assisting the enemy. This was not because of some Jewish master plan of ethnic cleansing but rather a direct result of the unique circumstances of war that the Arab countries instigated. interestingly enough for the Druze community which remained neutral during the war, not one Druze village was destroyed or expelled. Alot of Jewish leaders inculding Shabtai Levy (Haifa's Jewish mayor) pleaded with the palestinians to stay in their homes. Very sad in a way..

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There are two things that must happen in life, birth and death.
The rest are definite maybes.

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to put it simply..the world sucks

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This is something i can agree with

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The world is only as sweet as you make it and only as terrible as you see it