How about this...
We dont know how to create or destroy energy.

Perhaps I understand it wrong, but couldn't you theoretically create matter if you had infinite energy?

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What about the Big Bang, then? It created a hell of a lot of matter and energy.

Perhaps I understand it wrong, but couldn't you theoretically create matter if you had infinite energy?

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Its not creating its converting, energy and matter are the same thing and can be converted between each other.  For example a matter and anti-matter explosion in which both are converted into energy.

As for the big bang we haven't even began to understood what happened with it.

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EgoDeus

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The Conservation of Energy: Matter/energy can neither be created or destroyed.

This seems to disprove divine creation.

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Is that some kind of joke?

How can you possibly hope to disprove something that is supernatural with the natural?

"Natural laws prove that something that can bend, distort and all together ignore natural laws doesn't exist"

Oh wait.

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Maybe God doesn't care how you say your prayers,
just as long as you say them- Jeffery Sinclair

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Quote: from Moridin at 9:36 pm on July 8, 2008

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The Conservation of Energy: Matter/energy can neither be created or destroyed.  

 This seems to disprove divine creation.

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Is that some kind of joke?

How can you possibly hope to disprove something that is supernatural with the natural?  

"Natural laws prove that something that can bend, distort and all together ignore natural laws doesn't exist"

Oh wait.

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What makes you think that your obvious special pleading is justified?

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"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)

You are trying to define something in a way that can't rationally define it.

I think it's funny. "God can't exist because of logic, never mind that Gods exist outside of logic!"

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Maybe God doesn't care how you say your prayers,
just as long as you say them- Jeffery Sinclair

If you show me that Santa doesn't really hand out presents to every child around the world in one day, am I then justified in claiming that Santa is outside logic, and that he can deliver presents even though you have conclusively shown that he has not? I think not.

You are just afraid of applying the same rational standard to gods as you probably to on astrology, new age and all other forms of blatant mythology.

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"The larger the island of knowledge, the longer the
shoreline of wonder" (Ralph W. Sockman)

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1. Space is not infinite.
2. We know that the laws of physics are universal and apply everywhere.

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You are simply arbitrarily erecting a magical zone where you put a god into to shield them from rational truth Please show why you are justified in this operation. The claim that a "god" exists "outside" logic presupposes logic, so such an argument does nothing more than to assert itself to be false. Furthermore, logic is not a spatial measurement, so nothing exists "inside" or "outside" of logic, since those terms are inapplicable in this instance.

If you show me that Santa doesn't really hand out presents to every child around the world in one day, am I then justified in claiming that Santa is outside logic, and that he can deliver presents even though you have conclusively shown that he has not? I think not.

You are just afraid of applying the same rational standard to gods as you probably to on astrology, new age and all other forms of blatant mythology.

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This is why I think this is funny. It is as if you don't even understand the term "supernatural."

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Maybe God doesn't care how you say your prayers,
just as long as you say them- Jeffery Sinclair

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Quote: from Moridin at 5:18 am on July 9, 2008

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You are simply arbitrarily erecting a magical zone where you put a god into to shield them from rational truth Please show why you are justified in this operation. The claim that a "god" exists "outside" logic presupposes logic, so such an argument does nothing more than to assert itself to be false. Furthermore, logic is not a spatial measurement, so nothing exists "inside" or "outside" of logic, since those terms are inapplicable in this instance.  

 If you show me that Santa doesn't really hand out presents to every child around the world in one day, am I then justified in claiming that Santa is outside logic, and that he can deliver presents even though you have conclusively shown that he has not? I think not.  

 You are just afraid of applying the same rational standard to gods as you probably to on astrology, new age and all other forms of blatant mythology.

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This is why I think this is funny. It is as if you don't even understand the term "supernatural."

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Not really, because it still leaves us with the same question that divine creation stems from: "where did it come from in the first place"?

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Quote: from BrokenBelief at 12:37 am on July 9, 2008

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Not really, because it still leaves us with the same question that divine creation stems from: "where did it come from in the first place"?

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Thank you!
I keep asking and no one seems to have an answer!

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The Conservation of Energy: Matter/energy can neither be created or destroyed.

This seems to disprove divine creation.

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Also, to address your topic title, no, this doesn't disprove any Gods unless it is a prerequisite that they made everything by scratch, from nothing.

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