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I discovered that most addicted prisoners stopped taking heroin in jail, even when it was available. They came into the prison starving and miserable, and went out relatively healthy.

But within a few months, many were back in their former condition, and when brought once more before the courts, some would beg to be imprisoned.....

....When, soon after their return, I asked them whether they intended to give up taking heroin, some would reply: "I'll have to, I've got no choice."

Asked why, they would offer replies such as: "Because my girlfriend's just had a baby and she won't let me see it unless I do."

This answer was a strange one if these addicts truly thought of themselves as ill and in need of treatment. #

Instead, they clearly believed a purpose in life was enough to enable them to abstain. This is not how pneumonia, for instance, is cured.....

....There is a strenuous, almost outraged, rejection of the idea that addiction is, at bottom, a moral problem, or even that it raises any moral questions at all......

....To conceive of heroin addiction as such seems to me to miss the fundamental point: it is a moral or spiritual condition that will never yield to medical treatment.....

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And incredibly this:

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As long ago as the Thirties, experiments showed that salt solution could be substituted for morphine without the addicts' knowledge, and they could be deceived out of their withdrawal symptoms.

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Concluding with:

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Yet consider what happened in China after Mao took power in 1949. At the time, China had more opiate addicts than the rest of the world put together ? about 20million.

But Mao gave them a strong motive to give up: he shot the dealers and any addicts who did not give up their habit.

Within three years, Mao produced more cures than all the drug clinics in the world before or since, or indeed to come. He was, indeed, the greatest drug worker in history.

The point of this story is not to advocate a repetition of Mao's methods. It is to demonstrate that, when a motive is sufficiently strong, many millions of addicted people can abandon their addiction without the paraphernalia of help considered necessary today.

It demonstrates that people take heroin out of choice, ultimately, and so can stop out of choice. Addicts are not blameless victims of some terrible illness they have no control over.

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http://tinyurl.com/59lxrn

Food for thought, eh?

Post edited at 9:19 am on Oct. 18, 2008 by ElephantStone

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Future. Sex. Love. Sound.
Just tell me which way you like it.

I think its probably true that psychological addiction is a moral or spiritual issue, but the fact is so are a lot of so called "mental illnesses" (not the really severe ones like psychosis or anything, but some of the milder ones) and society as it stands won't admit that either because it would mean the acceptable solutions it can offer are unworkable.

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Lob sei Gott dem Vater g'tan,
Lob sei Gott sein'm ein'gen Sohn,
Lob sei Gott dem Heil'gen Geist
Immer und in Ewigkeit.

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Physical dependence is not addiction, you can be physically dependent on non addictive drugs, and addicted to drugs which cannot cause physical dependence.
Physical dependence just means you suffer withdrawals if you stop.

I think its probably true that psychological addiction is a moral or spiritual issue, but the fact is so are a lot of so called "mental illnesses" (not the really severe ones like psychosis or anything, but some of the milder ones) and society as it stands won't admit that either because it would mean the acceptable solutions it can offer are unworkable.

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I think youve missed the point.

What Ive drawn from the article is that people are choosing to be addicted.

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Future. Sex. Love. Sound.
Just tell me which way you like it.

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Quote: from osmoticdespair at 5:48 pm on Oct. 18, 2008

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Physical dependence is not addiction, you can be physically dependent on non addictive drugs, and addicted to drugs which cannot cause physical dependence.  
 Physical dependence just means you suffer withdrawals if you stop.  

 I think its probably true that psychological addiction is a moral or spiritual issue, but the fact is so are a lot of so called "mental illnesses" (not the really severe ones like psychosis or anything, but some of the milder ones) and society as it stands won't admit that either because it would mean the acceptable solutions it can offer are unworkable.

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I think youve missed the point.

What Ive drawn from the article is that people are choosing to be addicted.

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A physical dependency on a drug is not treatable in the same way that pneumonia is because they are different forms of illness.

This is like saying that a bi-polar person chooses to be bipolar, because I've personally seen someone break out of their down through force of will because they were going to lose everything they had if they didn't, and therefore why are we spending money on research for treating bi-polars.

This article's direction of point is retarded.

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Who dares wins. - Special Air Service

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they often beg to be taken back to prison because they become institutionalised, meaning that they cant cope with outside life anymore

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I highly doubt a 6 month imprisonment for burgalry would do that to you.

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Future. Sex. Love. Sound.
Just tell me which way you like it.

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Bitch STFU, why would people choose to live eating out of a garbage can and dancing for cash so they can afford to get a needle in their back?

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did you read the article? Now I have a background in heroin. But this guy is a person who has dealt with heroin addicts for the last 40 years and I dont think it should be discarded so quickly.

I think its interesting some of the points he makes, and its difficult to argue against the one with salt solution.

The feeling of being a victim is a good one, becasue most heroin addicts have grown up with the feeling of being a victim- no money, council flat, etc. they go on drugs and theyre a victim to that.

Its an interesting point he's made.

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Future. Sex. Love. Sound.
Just tell me which way you like it.

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Bitch STFU, why would people choose to live eating out of a garbage can and dancing for cash so they can afford to get a needle in their back?

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Quote: from ElephantStone at 6:14 pm on Oct. 18, 2008

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Quote: from osmoticdespair at 5:48 pm on Oct. 18, 2008

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Physical dependence is not addiction, you can be physically dependent on non addictive drugs, and addicted to drugs which cannot cause physical dependence.
  Physical dependence just means you suffer withdrawals if you stop.

  I think its probably true that psychological addiction is a moral or spiritual issue, but the fact is so are a lot of so called "mental illnesses" (not the really severe ones like psychosis or anything, but some of the milder ones) and society as it stands won't admit that either because it would mean the acceptable solutions it can offer are unworkable.

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 I think youve missed the point.  

 What Ive drawn from the article is that people are choosing to be addicted.

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What I got from it is they lack the motivation to do otherwise.

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Perfectly worded. I'd agree on Osmo with this one; I tend to look at the article as supporting the idea that supporting motivation to quit (ie: killing addicts) increases the chances of addicts quitting rather than supporting the idea that individuals choose to be addicted.

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--Guru: LiveWire's new coolest rank--
If you have a problem with hedonism, you're probably not doing it right.